How to Tell If You're Actually Passionate About Something, According to Tibi Founder Amy Smilovic

Amy Smilovic is a fashion brand founder, illustrator, and author—exactly the kind of work you can picture someone passionately working on at all hours of the day. But before starting her line, Tibi, in 1997, Smilovic worked for American Express, where she learned something unexpectedly profound about what being "passionate" actually means.

"A lot of people assume like, well, if you're going to be passionate about something, it must be because you are in the music industry or the film industry, right? I call bullshit on that," Smilovic tells editor-in-chief Nikki Ogunnaike on the latest episode of the "Nice Talk" podcast.

"When I was at Amex, I used to lay in bed at night and think like, 'Oh, how could I reposition this financial scenario to get this account to accept American Express? Like, I was running through, you know, discount rates and fee structures in my head. I was really passionate about it," she continues.

As Smilovic sees it, passion isn't limited to traditionally "exciting" fields. You can be passionate about almost any subject, no matter how mundane it might seem. And sometimes the passion isn't tied to a specific topic at all, but to a bigger, more conceptual way of thinking or working.

"I'm passionate about being curious. I'm passionate about having energy and, like, gusto after things," she goes on. "So if you're curious, if you're a high energy person, if you have pride in your work, that's passion. And you don't turn that off at seven o'clock."

Which brings Smilovic to another topic she "calls bullshit" on: work/life balance.

While people have very different ideas of what that looks like (and many genuinely want to switch off their work brains at home), Smilovic says it's easy to default to judging passion for work, especially when it spills into the rest of your life, as inherently a bad thing.

"I think that the danger is when anyone logically understands that, but you're being told by you being passionate, you're giving too much to someone else," the Creative Pragmatist author says. "You're giving too much to your boss. You should feel bad because you can't turn it off. You should be angry at your boss because you can't turn it off."

For more from Smilovic—including the scoop on her upcoming book, Almost Reckless (out March 3), and her advice for getting the most out of your wardrobe—check out this week’s installment of "Nice Talk". The episode is available everywhere you listen to podcasts.