Bravo is celebrating the 20-year anniversary of the Real Housewives franchise this year, but go back even further and the network looked very different from what reality TV fans know today. One of the people who has been there throughout that entire evolution is Frances Berwick.
Today, Berwick is the Chairman of Bravo and Peacock Unscripted, but when she began working for Bravo in 1996, it was still known as an arts and film channel.
"We had a lot of independent movies and foreign language films and arts programs," Berwick says on the latest episode of Marie Claire's "Nice Talk" podcast. "We realized pretty early on ... watching a full-length opera or ballet doesn't really work very well on commercial television."
So, the network began putting out docuseries that were a type of "social anthropology," Berwick says. One that really broke through was the original Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, which premiered in 2003.
"I don't think I ever set out to say I want to be in unscripted, but I just loved it," Berwick tells editor-in-chief Nikki Ogunnaike. "I really love watching people closely, getting inside their lives, understanding what makes people tick, and it's that warts-and-all, close-up, fly-on-the-wall storytelling and the soap opera of people's lives that I think really resonates."
Berwick has held multiple titles at the network and its parent company over the years, including Executive Vice President, Programming and Production at Bravo, and President, Lifestyle Networks for NBCUniversal.
"I have sort of a right brain and left brain part of the job," says the Emmy-winning exec about her current position. "I run the Bravo business, so the brand and the budget ... but then there's a large chunk of creative, too. You know, what shows are we going to make? How are we approaching the productions and the development?"
And Berwick is not just making the shows Bravo fans love, she's a member of the fandom, too.
"As with any job, there are the un-fun bits, but I would say first and foremost, I get to work with really great, smart, fun people. But it's also creating content that provides lots of fun and joy, including for myself. I really like watching these shows. Sometimes you meet somebody, who is really not a reality person ... I remember a mother at my son's school saying to me once, like, 'How can you do your job?' And I'm like, 'I love it.'"
While Bravo has changed a lot from the arts and film channel it started out as, Berwick says that even with so many long-running and successful shows, evolving remains key.
"I think it's no different to a musical artist," Berwick explains. "You think about Madonna and how many times she's sort of evolved her image and continues to do so. Nothing can be stagnant, because the culture is changing, and you have to be listening. You cannot be tone deaf. Sometimes there are things that we move away from that we're resisting doing, because we think, Oh, this is doing really well right now, but you sort of have to get ahead of it."
Clearly, Berwick and her Bravo colleagues know what they’re doing. The channel is bigger than ever, with fans turning up for events like BravoCon and creators building whole careers on covering the shows.
"I think a few years ago, people solidly put a show like The Real Housewives, Summer House, any of these shows into the guilty pleasure bucket, and now I think it's, like, fully mainstream," Berwick says. "It's not just having a moment; it's just people are appreciating that this actually is really great entertainment, and there are often learnings from it, and it opens people's minds. Just as back in the day, 20 years ago—or more than 20 years ago ... [viewers] had not seen a representation in a reality show of real gay people on television and it sort of broke those barriers, I hope that's what we continue to do by showing real people living their lives and opening up perspectives."
For more from Berwick—including the traits that make a great reality star—check out this week's installment of "Nice Talk." The episode is available everywhere you listen to podcasts.