Kiernan Shipka Is Wielding All the Power on 'Industry'

This story contains spoilers about Industry season 4, episode 6, "Dear Henry." Midway through season 4 of Industry, Kiernan Shipka sent the internet ablaze when her character, Haley, pulls a psycho-sexual Uno reverse on Marisa Abela’s Yasmin in the confines of an elevator. With one impeccable, snarky “Thank you, Mommy,” she launched countless GIFs and inspired even more viewers to tune into the HBO hit. But beyond that, the star also made it even clearer that there’s a lot more to the executive assistant than meets the eye.

In episode 6, “Dear Henry,” when shit hits the fan at Tender, Haley finally casts aside all professional pleasantries, unveiling who she really is. As it turns out, Tender head Whitney (Max Minghella) hired Haley from an escort service; her job description includes managing his schedule, sending emails, and committing extortion by getting herself and other escorts alone with powerful men.

As Shipka sees it, the role and its layers couldn’t have yielded a higher return on investment. “It’s fun to have a secret and slowly uncover it,” she tells Marie Claire over Zoom in January. “[At] the premiere, they only showed the first episode, and I remember being at the after-party and someone coming up to me being like, ‘I'm so scared for her. I'm so worried for her,’ which was funny to hear. I was like, ‘I think she'll be fine.’”

In the February 15th episode, not only does Haley confront Whitney, she also opens up to Yasmin in hopes of forming an alliance, so she, too, can remain within arm's reach of wealth and access and not go down with her boss and Tender. When Yasmin asks if the tryst between her, Haley, and her husband—Tender’s newly-appointed CEO, Henry (Kit Harrington)—was recorded as a part of Whitney’s schemes, Haley doesn’t give a straight answer. She may be at the bottom of the corporate ladder, but she’s savvy enough to wield what little power she has while trying to climb it.

The fact that Haley kept Industry fans guessing throughout season 4 is all to Shipka’s credit. The 26-year-old Mad Men alum masters the dichotomy of Haley’s good-girl-in-a-cardigan act as much as her true, devious party-girl form.

“We're such different people, and we move about the world in such a different way, but I feel like the thing that I could really deeply relate to was this idea of playing other people,” she says.

With Haley liberated from Whitney’s management following Sunday night’s episode, Shipka tells Marie Claire about what she makes of her character’s big reveal, what it’s like partying with the cast and crew of Industry, and what she really thinks of the show’s comparisons to Mad Men.

Marie Claire: There’s a lot of mystery surrounding Haley, and then the truth comes out in episode six. When you signed on, how much did you know about the character?

Kiernan Shipka: I knew what she did for [Whitney]. That was a pretty early conversation, just because I wanted to know everything that I could about her, especially playing someone who's so mysterious and revealed over time. I wanted to make sure that it all made sense.

I feel like, for the majority of the season, Haley is holding her cards close to her chest. She's breadcrumbing little bits here and there about who she really is, but she's playing a character [herself]. So to get to finally lay it all out and be a more authentic version of who she really is was so fun and so freeing because she played such a good game throughout the show. It was fun to let it rip and let more of the truth out. There was something very cathartic about that.

MC: What did you make of Haley in the moment when she confronts Whitney?

KS: I think that, for a long time, Haley felt she had to justify these things that she was doing and was feeling trapped in the Tender/Whitney situation until Yasmin proved to be a life raft out. I think there was a lot that she felt like she had to endure and do in service of getting what she wanted or getting something that Whitney promised her that never actually came to be. It was a big release for her because I think, before that, she felt like she couldn't leave, and she was scared to leave. Now, I think we see a version of her that's ready to go and is able to, for the first time, feel and say all these things she's actually been bottling up for a really long time.

MC: And then when Yas asks her if the encounter with Henry was filmed, you do this amazing little lip quiver. I need to know whether that was scripted or how you arrived there.

KS: When in doubt, Haley still wants to have options. I think she’s always—even in her most vulnerable moments—looking at the situation from a strategic point of view and always wants to have a few cards only for her. That was one of those moments that we wanted to play intentionally unsettling and vague because, at the end of the day, the potential existence of that tape has a lot of potential to come back around or be a lot of things. The power of her saying so much with saying so little was the goal there.

MC: There’s so much to unpack in Haley and Yas’s conversation, but it’s interesting how she says she wants to get closer to her because she’s learned that “access is what makes you rich.” Do you feel like there's truth in that? Or, how might you have related to that line of thinking?

KS: I definitely understand that line of thinking. I think that what Haley has been chasing—maybe she's thought for a while—is money, but what it really is is belonging. I think that her driving force is feeling untouchable and like she belongs. She doesn't want just a nice apartment to go home to, but not be invited to the party. She wants to be in the center of it all, and I definitely think that line was very astute. I think she sees the fleeting nature of money and then spending that money, versus the longstanding nature of having access or status, even though that can shift and rise and fall as well. She is realizing the staying power is not all just based in getting a check.

MC: In that moment, Haley also insists that she and Yas understand each other. Why do you think that is?

KS: I think it's their relationships with men. In the earlier episodes, there was this sort of unspoken spiritual bond because they've both endured some gnarly stuff and are still standing and protecting themselves in all the specific ways that they do. I think they're both incredibly charismatic and use that as a weapon.

What I think is very interesting about their relationship is that it's not really built on trust, but it is built on understanding. They both realize they would benefit from each other's existences in their lives, even if they're on shaky ground. They both would rather have each other and have more access and more of a chance to do whatever it is that they're about to do. They're both incredibly complicated people, and they're both incredibly flawed people, and they see a lot of the same want to belong in each other.

MC: Yas and Haley are the latest example in a trend of recent movies and shows about imperfect mentorship or an imbalanced power dynamic between a woman in a position of power and another woman who’s her junior. What interests you about these dynamics?

KS: There's something endlessly fascinating about who has the ball in a power dynamic. Especially in a power dynamic between two women, but really in any power dynamic, this idea that one person has the power at all times is this binary way of looking at it. This idea of there being nuance within that and complexities within that, especially in the current day and age, is so ripe for discussion and discourse.

It’s because there’s not a finish line—that's the endlessly fascinating thing about these shows and films, or with Haley and Yas. It's not done. It's not a fixed thing. There are ways for it to shift or seesaw, and I think there's something incredibly modern about that and incredibly exciting to watch. And all of that aside, it also just keeps you on the edge of your seat.

MC: You’ve been in the entertainment industry for a while. Did you relate to Haley’s ability to alter people’s perceptions of her, or maybe overcome being underestimated?

KS: I definitely think Haley knows how people see her or how she appears, and then plays with that and surprises people. I definitely relate to that. There's almost a meta quality to me playing this character, because there is a surprising nature to me in this part, inherently because of my history, having been a child in the public eye. As different as we are, I think that there were parts of her that I could really find myself in, too.

MC: How did you get into Haley’s headspace? Did you make a party-girl playlist or anything like that?

KS: All sorts of stuff. I journaled her. I really did her whole backstory. That's what I do for every character that I play. I want to know how they grew up, where they grew up, why they want what they want, how they were raised with their family—so that by the time that I'm in their shoes, I'm not confused. I don't want there to be questions.

I'm a big music listener, and I feel like I was listening to whatever I already was, plus extra fun stuff. The club scene that we did, [showrunner] Mickey [Down] actually had a DJ friend named DJ Tennis, and he literally DJ-ed. So, there was actual music going on during that, and a lot of the music was also written into the script itself. That was fun. There's a lot of footage out there of me trying to crawl into the DJ booth and getting rejected that didn't end up making the cut. It’s like me begging DJ Tennis let me into his booth and him just being like, Ugh, this girl.

MC: What is it like being a part of a show where the characters do not hold back and often show the worst parts of themselves?

KS: It's fun. It's great. We meet Haley at her most raw and unapologetic and reckless, for better or for worse. And that version of Haley circles back when she has the confrontation with Whitney. I see her in all these different parts, and it was fun to return to something that felt a little bit more recklessly abandoned, if you will.

I don't ever really approach anything from a place of judgment. I don't think you really can when you're performing. When you're playing someone else, you have to throw that out the window, and once it comes out, you can say, “Oh, I wouldn't do that.” But while doing it—to be able to escape into someone else and throw away judgment and really play with this new person—it's so exciting.

MC: Haley is at the scene of the crime in many of this season’s wilder moments. Which was your favorite to film?

KS: I really enjoyed screaming out Charlie [Heaton] at the beginning of the season. I didn't realize how funny that scene is until watching it back with an audience. There are certain scenes where, after I do them, I can drop my shoulders, and I know the character, where they're going, or like an important piece was done. After we did that scene, I felt like, Okay, we're in the car. It's moving. Let's do this. I felt really energized.

MC: There are a lot of comparisons between Industry and Mad Men. As a former Mad Men star, what do you think of them?

KS: They're really accurate. I binged [Industry] before I went to Wales to start filming the season, and I had not heard those comparisons before, but immediately I went, Oh my gosh, there's some stuff about it that's very Mad Men. I mentioned it to [showrunner] Konrad [Kay]—just casually wanted to drop it. He goes, “Oh, yeah. I've seen Mad Men four times through.” I think there's something in their subconscious that creates with Mad Men in mind, in the best way.

They're so wildly different in tone and in theme, and the characters are so different that the comparison feels really genuine and nice. Not like it's a replica by any means, but there are some dynamics in that show and some moments that really feel like subtle homages.

MC: You said a little over a year ago that you were trying to have more fun and untether yourself from control and perfectionism. Was challenging yourself with a role like Haley part of that journey?

KS: Oh, for sure. This whole experience was the epitome of fun and untethering. [Laughs] I didn't even think about that, but I really did say that, and I think I kept my promise to myself because this was exactly that. There's always a relinquishing of control when you're in a new place, on a new set. And there are so many different ways that things could go, and you can only do so much to service the character and the story, and then the rest is out of your control. And then also, this cast and crew are incredibly fun and like to have fun. I definitely said yes to all the fun nights, too, so there was that.

MC: Considering you had so much fun working with the cast and crew, do you have any favorite memories from going out with everybody?

KS: After that very intense Yas/Haley scene in episode six, where I reveal all, I got my things and drove straight to Glastonbury to meet Mickey and Konrad. Marisa [Abela] had two more scenes to do, but made it by the evening, and we had such a fun time. I'd never seen Charli xcx live. That was my number one. I felt like I really was in the center of the entire music festival, even though I wasn't, but I was in the crowd. Glastonbury was a magical, life-changing experience, and I'm glad I didn't have to work on Monday. Some of them did, though.

This interview was edited and condensed for clarity.